High PUCCH DTX rate for format1/3 (longpucch) in NSA 5G

Hi Experts,
pucch format 1 dtx for one of the TDD carrier is >10%
pucch format 3 dtx >20% most of the time.
What could be reason of this? Our Call drop rate %1 but I think that dtx rate can impact DL thrpughput significantly especially in TDD_TDD CA.
Thanks

Perhaps P0_pucch is too low

Agree. ponominal pucch value for TDD is -108 thats p0NominalPucchF1F3 incase long pucch is used.
I plan to change it to -90 actually but how to judge the optimum value from KPIs?
I have pathloss , UE rssi, UE sinr kpis for PUCCH

i increased po nominal pucch to -90 and saw the impact on PUCCH RSSI and SINR immediately improved but dtx has still the same trend, any other idea?

Try these if applicable

  • Disable CDRX
  • configure UL data traffic to use SCG

Thanks for the comments @O.B Let me give you more info:
this issue occurred after i enabled tdd_tdd(n78c) CA rollout, pucchformat3 dtx degraded.
-disable cdrx (i will try)

  • ul data split- already configured but will tune thresholds according to path-loss and enable dft-s-ofdm.
    I reckon, i have to decrease a bit the A1 threshold for 2nd carrier addition from -110 to -105 as this issue occured after ca activation. More csi report resources have to be allocated for 2nd carrier which is pucch, the problem has to be related with pucch resources as it is a DTX in my opinion.

It could be incorrect behavior from either gnb or ue

I had a case previously in which the network configured pucch resource that the UE used but was expecting another pucch resource resulting in the network declaring DTX

I have UE logs , can u eleborate a bit how to check if pucch resource allocated properly for UE ? @O.B
Thanks

Pucch configuration is in RRC messages
Actual pucch resource used is in L1 messages. If you have QXDM log, you should be able to get it
The problem could be on network side so network L1 trace may be needed

This is RRC message:

 cqi-ReportConfig-r10
        cqi-ReportAperiodic-r10
          CQI-ReportAperiodic-r10 : setup
          cqi-ReportModeAperiodic-r10 : rm31
          aperiodicCSI-Trigger-r10
            trigger1-r10 : 10000000
              [0 ] : 1
              [1 ] : 0
              [2 ] : 0
              [3 ] : 0
              [4 ] : 0
              [5 ] : 0
              [6 ] : 0
              [7 ] : 0
            trigger2-r10 : 01000000
              [0 ] : 0
              [1 ] : 1
              [2 ] : 0
              [3 ] : 0
              [4 ] : 0
              [5 ] : 0
              [6 ] : 0
              [7 ] : 0
        nomPDSCH-RS-EPRE-Offset : 0
        cqi-ReportPeriodic-r10
          CQI-ReportPeriodic-r10 : setup
          cqi-PUCCH-ResourceIndex-r10 : 0
          cqi-pmi-ConfigIndex : 78
          cqi-FormatIndicatorPeriodic-r10 : widebandCQI-r10
          ri-ConfigIndex : 1
          simultaneousAckNackAndCQI : true
      pucch-ConfigDedicated-v1020
        pucch-Format-r10
          pucch-Format-r10 : channelSelection-r10
          n1PUCCH-AN-CS-r10
            n1PUCCH-AN-CS-r10 : setup
            n1PUCCH-AN-CS-List-r10 : 
              [0 ] : 
                N1PUCCH-AN-CS-r10 : 
                  [0 ] : 1
                  [1 ] : 3
                  [2 ] : 5
                  [3 ] : 6
              [1 ] : 
                N1PUCCH-AN-CS-r10 : 
                  [0 ] : 55
                  [1 ] : 57
                  [2 ] : 59
                  [3 ] : 60

And this is the 5G MAC UL PHY channel scheduled report:
Blocks : 
  [0 ] : 
    Code : FULL_PKT
    Length : 328
  [1 ] : 
    Code : AGC
    Length : 80
    AGC Sub Packet
      Variant ID : 0
      Version : 5
      Log Header
        Log2 Slot To Unit Slot : 2
        Fractional Unit Slot Number : 48
        SFN : 864
        Carrier Index : 0
        Log Size : 76
      AGC Carrier
        Rx Bit0 : 1
        Rx Bit1 : 1
        Rx Bit2 : 0
        Rx Bit3 : 0
      AGC Rx Sub6 : 
        [0 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 3
          Inband RSSI : -29.75 dBm
        [1 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 2
          Inband RSSI : -38.63 dBm
  [2 ] : 
    Code : AGC
    Length : 80
    AGC Sub Packet
      Variant ID : 0
      Version : 5
      Log Header
        Log2 Slot To Unit Slot : 2
        Fractional Unit Slot Number : 48
        SFN : 864
        Carrier Index : 1
        Log Size : 76
      AGC Carrier
        Rx Bit0 : 1
        Rx Bit1 : 1
        Rx Bit2 : 0
        Rx Bit3 : 0
      AGC Rx Sub6 : 
        [0 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 3
          Inband RSSI : -32.00 dBm
        [1 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 2
          Inband RSSI : -33.13 dBm
  [3 ] : 
    Code : AGC
    Length : 80
    AGC Sub Packet
      Variant ID : 0
      Version : 5
      Log Header
        Log2 Slot To Unit Slot : 2
        Fractional Unit Slot Number : 52
        SFN : 864
        Carrier Index : 0
        Log Size : 76
      AGC Carrier
        Rx Bit0 : 1
        Rx Bit1 : 1
        Rx Bit2 : 0
        Rx Bit3 : 0
      AGC Rx Sub6 : 
        [0 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 3
          Inband RSSI : -29.75 dBm
        [1 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 2
          Inband RSSI : -38.63 dBm
  [4 ] : 
    Code : AGC
    Length : 80
    AGC Sub Packet
      Variant ID : 0
      Version : 5
      Log Header
        Log2 Slot To Unit Slot : 2
        Fractional Unit Slot Number : 52
        SFN : 864
        Carrier Index : 1
        Log Size : 76
      AGC Carrier
        Rx Bit0 : 1
        Rx Bit1 : 1
        Rx Bit2 : 0
        Rx Bit3 : 0
      AGC Rx Sub6 : 
        [0 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 3
          Inband RSSI : -32.00 dBm
        [1 ] : 
          Current LNA Gain State : 2
          Inband RSSI : -33.13 dBm
  [5 ] : 
    Code : PAD_PKT
    Length : 4

Do you see anything abnormal? @O.B

@LordGm
Does not seem like correct messages

For example RRC has lots of r10 so it is LTE not 5G

The L1 message does not have PUCCH information

Check this , from UE side only message includes pucch info is 5G MAC UL PHY channel scheduled report. If you know in which message we can find that info, please share it.
L3 is given below.

RRC message: pucch resources (14:02:10.945)

pucch-ConfigCommon
                                              SetupRelease : setup
                                              Setup
                                                pucch-GroupHopping : neither
                                                hoppingId : 303
                                                p0-nominal : -90
                                          bwp-Dedicated
                                            pucch-Config
                                              SetupRelease : setup
                                              Setup
                                                resourceSetToAddModList
                                                  resourceSetToAddModList : 
                                                    [0 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceSetId : 0
                                                      resourceList : 
                                                        [0 ] : 0
                                                        [1 ] : 1
                                                    [1 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceSetId : 1
                                                      resourceList : 
                                                        [0 ] : 10
                                                        [1 ] : 11
                                                resourceToAddModList
                                                  resourceToAddModList : 
                                                    [0 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceId : 0
                                                      startingPRB : 271
                                                      intraSlotFrequencyHopping: enabled
                                                      secondHopPRB : 1
                                                      format : format1
                                                      format1
                                                        initialCyclicShift : 2
                                                        nrofSymbols : 14
                                                        startingSymbolIndex : 0
                                                        timeDomainOCC : 0
                                                    [1 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceId : 1
                                                      startingPRB : 1
                                                      intraSlotFrequencyHopping: enabled
                                                      secondHopPRB : 271
                                                      format : format1
                                                      format1
                                                        initialCyclicShift : 2
                                                        nrofSymbols : 14
                                                        startingSymbolIndex : 0
                                                        timeDomainOCC : 0
                                                    [2 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceId : 8
                                                      startingPRB : 272
                                                      intraSlotFrequencyHopping: enabled
                                                      secondHopPRB : 0
                                                      format : format1
                                                      format1
                                                        initialCyclicShift : 6
                                                        nrofSymbols : 14
                                                        startingSymbolIndex : 0
                                                        timeDomainOCC : 0
                                                    [3 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceId : 9
                                                      startingPRB : 2
                                                      intraSlotFrequencyHopping: enabled
                                                      secondHopPRB : 270
                                                      format : format3
                                                      format3
                                                        nrofPRBs : 1
                                                        nrofSymbols : 14
                                                        startingSymbolIndex : 0
                                                    [4 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceId : 10
                                                      startingPRB : 271
                                                      intraSlotFrequencyHopping: enabled
                                                      secondHopPRB : 1
                                                      format : format3
                                                      format3
                                                        nrofPRBs : 1
                                                        nrofSymbols : 14
                                                        startingSymbolIndex : 0
                                                    [5 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceId : 11
                                                      startingPRB : 1
                                                      intraSlotFrequencyHopping: enabled
                                                      secondHopPRB : 271
                                                      format : format3
                                                      format3
                                                        nrofPRBs : 1
                                                        nrofSymbols : 14
                                                        startingSymbolIndex : 0
                                                    [6 ] : 
                                                      pucch-ResourceId : 18
                                                      startingPRB : 270
                                                      intraSlotFrequencyHopping: enabled
                                                      secondHopPRB : 2
                                                      format : format3
                                                      format3
                                                        nrofPRBs : 1
                                                        nrofSymbols : 14
                                                        startingSymbolIndex : 0
                                                format1
                                                  SetupRelease : setup
                                                  Setup
                                                format3
                                                  SetupRelease : setup
                                                  Setup
                                                    maxCodeRate : zeroDot25
                                                    simultaneousHARQ-ACK-CSI: true
                                                schedulingRequestResourceToAddModList
                                                  schedulingRequestResourceToAddModList : 
                                                    [0 ] : 
                                                      schedulingRequestResourceId : 1
                                                      schedulingRequestID : 0
                                                      periodicityAndOffset
                                                        periodicityAndOffset : sl80
                                                        sl80 : 39
                                                      resource : 8
                                                dl-DataToUL-ACK
                                                  dl-DataToUL-ACK : 
                                                    [0 ] : 4
                                                    [1 ] : 5
                                                    [2 ] : 6
                                                    [3 ] : 7
                                                    [4 ] : 8
                                                    [5 ] : 0
                                                    [6 ] : 0
                                                    [7 ] : 0
                                                pucch-PowerControl
                                                  deltaF-PUCCH-f1 : 0
                                                  deltaF-PUCCH-f3 : 0
                                                  p0-Set
                                                    p0-Set : 
                                                      [0 ] : 
                                                        p0-PUCCH-Id : 1
                                                        p0-PUCCH-Value : 0

NR 5G MAC UL Physical Channel Schedule Report

Time : 14:02:11.113
Length : 124
Log Code (Hex) : 0xB883
HW Timestamp : (43330687.75 ms) 12:02:10.688
Version : 196625 (v3.17)
MAC Version
  Minor : 17
  Major : 3
Padding : 0
Num Records : 2
Records : 
  [0 ] : 
    Slot : 4
    Numerology : 30 kHz
    Frame : 311
    Num Carrier : 1
    Carriers : 
      [0 ] : 
        Carrier ID : 0
        RNTI Type : C_RNTI
        Phychan Bit Mask : 
          PUCCH
        PUCCH Data
          NumPucch : 1
          PerPucchData : 
            [0 ] : 
              PUCCH Format : PucchFormatF1
              UCI Request BMask : 
                ACK_NACK_RPT
              Start symbol : 0
              Num Symbols : 14
              Starting RB : 271
              REL16 DMRS EN : 0
              Dual Pol Status : 0
              Num RB : 1
              Freq Hopping Flag : HopModeGroup
              Second Hop RB : 1
              Num HARQ ACK Bits : 2
              Num SR Bits : 0
              pad_w2 : 0
              Num UCI P1 Bits : 2
              Num UCI P2 Bits : 0
              PadW3 : 8
              M0 : 2
              Time OCC Index : 0
              I DMRS : 0
              DFT OCC Length : 0
              DFT OCC Index : 0
              pad_w4 : 0
  [1 ] : 
    Slot : 9
    Numerology : 30 kHz
    Frame : 311
    Num Carrier : 1
    Carriers : 
      [0 ] : 
        Carrier ID : 0
        RNTI Type : C_RNTI
        Phychan Bit Mask : 
          PUSCH
        PUSCH Data
          Tx Type : NEW_TX
          L2 new TB : True
          HARQ ID : 8
          RV Index : 0
          MCS : 26
          Tx Mode : SISO
          RB Start : 123
          Num RBs : 3
          BWP ID : 1
          Start Symbol : 0
          Num Symbols : 14
          Tx Slot Offset : 2
          UCI Request Mask : 
            ACK_NACK_RPT
          Mcs Table : Qam256
          TB Size (bytes) : 388
          DMRS Symbol Bitmask : 2052
          Freq Hop Flag : 0
          Mapping Type : TypeA
          DMRS Config Type : 0
          Data Scrambling Selection : FromCfg
          PTRS EN : 1
          DMRS Ports[0] : 0
          DMRS Ports[1] : 15
          DMRS Add Pos : 1
          RNTI Value : 17560
          TPMI : 31
          RA Type : 1
          RB Start Hop : 0
          CDM Groups : 2
          DmrsScramblingSelection : Nscid0
          DMRS PTRS Assoc : 0
          Dual Pol Status : 0
          Beta Offset Ind : 0
          Num HARQ ACK Bits : 3
          Num CSF P1 Bits : 0
          Num CSF P2 Bits : 0
          SRS Res Ind : 2
          REL16 DMRS EN : 0
          Modulation : 256 QAM
          Transform Precoding : 0
          Code Rate : 1833
          CB Size : 3168
          K Prime Value : 3120
          ZC Value : 144
          Num CBs : 1
          RBG Bitmap : N/A
          Number of Gap RadioBearers : 0

@LordGm
Yes, these look like the correct messages to analyze.

Hi, I dont see any abnormal behaviour on these messages at least RRC and L1.
Pucch format 3 dtx rate was %5 now it is 10% after CA activation so it is difficult to find the problematic signalling.
and I tried to increase PUCCH power, nothing changed.
I also tuned the Ul data split thresholds and enabled dft-s-ofdm. No impact at all.
Last step is to decrease 5G CA secondary carrier A1 addition threshold from -110 to -105. Lets see I will share the results here.

I solved the issue. I optimized the uldata split thresholds and tuned the Open loop control parameters like nominalpucch, deltaf1/f3 , I would say using different thresholds for TDD and FDD are recommended.

The parameters have been tweaked are given below:

rlresumeSinrthreshold
rlosinrthreshold
p0nominalPUCCH
P0nominalPUCCHF1F3

case closed.

Hi What values did u set for P0nominal PUCCH and F1F3